2004-07-13 [Lost in Illusions]: ~yawn~ -.- so bored....

2004-07-14 [Avoral]: Annoying people, no. Elucidating people, yes.

2004-07-14 [Whim]: Let's start liquidating people.

2004-07-14 [Avoral]: You mean selling them and thus turning them to money in your pocket?

2004-07-14 [Whim]: yes

2004-07-14 [Whim]: Vote Whim For Town Guard

2004-07-15 [Malkavian]: mehehehehehe =blinks= o_0

2004-07-15 [Avoral]: *Eats*

2004-07-19 [Astaroth]: Haha.. I'm not personally a Christian, I don't believe in that crap. However, I don't like irresponsible individuals who like to "rebel" and do the most pathetic things to get their ways... I really admire the whole concept behind this "mission" though. Destroy these overgrown brats and make the world a better place, I'm up for it.

2004-07-19 [Avoral]: Why thank you. *Bows* Glad you could see the real message, to a degree. And I've seen your general style, so yeah... You might be cool for Elect status already.

2004-07-19 [HiddenFire]: *wonders whose messages were deleted or if Avoral just talks like that all the time.* @.@

2004-07-19 [Avoral]: I do.

2004-07-19 [Astaroth]: Who created this wiki?

2004-07-19 [Avoral]: I did.

2004-07-19 [HiddenFire]: holy crap! never noticed that. version = 0 latest author: Avoral. why did this never occur to me?

2004-07-19 [HiddenFire]: so your "I do" could be in answer to either or both of my questions. @.@

2004-07-19 [Astaroth]: Oh you did? That's what I suspected, but I'm still confused about these "wiki's" and how they work, so I wasn't sure. I read the "offended" page, and that is very nicely said, [Avoral]. I never thought of that matter in that perspective, you must be a very intelligent person from what I can tell.

2004-07-19 [Avoral]: *LOL* offended is the brilliant little brainchild of [HiddenFire] there.

2004-07-19 [Avoral]: But he says the exact message I let go unspoken, simply because it's fun to make it snap together in the middle of some random night. But thank you, regardless; intelligence is fun.

2004-07-19 [Avoral]: Don't worry, Hidden, usually people only seek out the author when they're up in arms.

2004-07-19 [Astaroth]: I agree, ask yourself WHY you're offended, and THEN act accordingly. However, acting without thinking first can also be justifiable in this case, think about it. If someone "offends" me I'd much rather do things the immature way instead. Either use violence, or get revenge somehow. Now before you all condemn me for being irresponsible, let's think first, THEN act accordingly. I can definitely justify my rights to act as I please in this matter... let's look at both sides here: Low? Yes, a very low way to act in this situation, I know, but I don't care about that in this particular case. Now let's take a look at the other hand: Fun? HELL YEAH! Judging by that logic, if someone offends me..

2004-07-19 [Astaroth]: then I can deal with them however I please, no? They set themselves up for my ridicule if they choose to offend me first, is this not true?

2004-07-19 [Pnelma Tirian]: I think I'll have you guys have my fights for me.

2004-07-19 [Astaroth]: So... regardless of whether I "offend" anybody or not here, though I apolagize if I do,as that isn't my intent by asking... but let me ask this: Is this a freakin' Bible-thumping group or something?! o_0

2004-07-19 [Avoral]: Haven't you been doing that already?

2004-07-19 [Astaroth]: Yeah, I do it all the time. I like to mess with retarded people, I'm especially happy to do so when they basically ask me to do it even. XD

2004-07-19 [Avoral]: Well, Astaroth, I'll let you make that call. Read the Seraphim's roster, think of who you're talking to, and tell me.

2004-07-19 [Pnelma Tirian]: well, I for one am a retired bible thumper. right now I've been running...but that's not for this wiki.

2004-07-19 [Avoral]: Ooh, running. Bible-thumping is fun! ^_^!

2004-07-19 [Astaroth]: I don't know what to think of it in all honesty. I mean is the "seraphim" thing a quote from the Bible or something?

2004-07-19 [Astaroth]: What the hell is a "Seraphim" anyways? o_0

2004-07-19 [Avoral]: Nah, just my own little twist of angelology.

2004-07-19 [Pnelma Tirian]: I don't like bible-thumping as much. it usually requires I read more than a couple verses every decade or so.....aren't I just the best christian out there?:P

2004-07-19 [Astaroth]: I personally don't like Bible-thumpers the least bit.

2004-07-19 [Avoral]: Well, it's fun to get Biblical on people, especially considering so many don't like it. It's gotta be one of the most effective means of bastardization lately... Maybe I should actually read it to get a scope of what it says, not just break into the Christianesque philosophies to smite things. ^_^

2004-07-19 [Astaroth]: Hehe.. especially considering the fact that I live in the Southern U.S. We've got crusty, old, wartorn, bible-thumpin' rednecks-a-many down here. And don't even get me started on those Black gospel church things. XD

2004-07-19 [Astaroth]: Actually, the Bible has some pretty cool stories in it. It's a good book in my opinion.

2004-07-19 [Avoral]: Damn straight it does. I actually do love the Bible. It's a totally bad-ass book, and full of wisdom we can all use in life. Whether or not anyone wants to admit it, the Bible's the seat of Western philosophy and has been since said philosophy's incipience.

2004-07-19 [Astaroth]: Yeah, I agree totally. It's the more responsible basis for the general code of conduct that has been used since the begginning of human civilization, though most people aren't responsible enough to follow a code of conduct anymore, but nontheless, the bible has AWESOME stories, and lots of wisdom, like you said. We can all learn a great deal from the bible in my opinion, regardless of whether we are religious or not.

2004-07-19 [Pnelma Tirian]: the bible has kickass stories in it. if you're willing to wade through the "begots" (David begot John, son of Moolah, who begot Bob, son of Abe...) there's several really awesome stories there. And did I mention that David does almost nothing but complain? ;) it's true...

2004-07-19 [Pnelma Tirian]: I need to read it through all the way someday....

2004-07-19 [Avoral]: *Nods* My opinion too. The most annoying thing, of course, is those annoying little kids who reject everything Christian and go around denouncing Christianity... You even pretty much did it yourself upon coming in here tonight, though it's forgivable in your case.

2004-07-19 [Avoral]: Hell, Solomon just basically sits back and gets his game on for the whole time he's spoken of. That king is effing mack daddy.

2004-07-19 [Avoral]: And you're not the only one, Pnelma. 'Course, Chub ([Priest Kel]) has an interesting little Bible study group he goes to, and can have a very enlightening discussion with an open-minded person at the drop of a hat. And even HE hasn't read the whole thing yet.

2004-07-19 [Pnelma Tirian]: which king was it..? there was one that went crazy for something like ten years and ate grass and stuff like a horse. I think it was Nebucanezzer of something....

2004-07-19 [Pnelma Tirian]: (that sounded not only ditzy but idiotic as well....)

2004-07-19 [Avoral]: Nebuchadnezzar did go crazy, though I hear he may have been afflicted with lycanthropy.

2004-07-19 [Astaroth]: Well I don't reject everything that's Christian. I think that everyone has every right to believe in what religion they please, or not to believe in anything at all as well. I am not religious myself, though I do try to follow a code of conduct, and I'm not a "filthy" person, I personally agree with alot of things that Christianity stands for. Keep in mind that alot of things that I say are merely intended to be humorous. What I am basically saying is that I don't like those who try to force it on you, like the crusty, old, wartorn, bible-thumping rednecks, for example. XD

2004-07-19 [Avoral]: Nah, I was more talking about the "I'm not personally a Christian, I don't believe in that crap" quote from the very first post you put in here. But yeah, humor is understood.

2004-07-19 [Pnelma Tirian]: I agree. Evangelism is a feild that I have avoided with a feirce passion, as I tend to do exactly that....it's not my fault I'm so damn impatient, really....

2004-07-19 [Astaroth]: But I do know how it's annoying how lots of people reject everything that is Christian, like those hottopic "goth" kids who are trying to be "evil". What is funny is that they generally try to be "cool" and say that they worship Satan, yet they hate Christianity and don't believe it. Satan is a Christian deity, so anyone who even believes in Satan, much less worships him, is indeed a Christian, those morons. XD

2004-07-19 [Astaroth]: Well I personally don't believe in most of it, but I didn't mean that it was literally "crap".. I guess I just said it for no reason really, I don't know why. I'm sorry if you were offended by it though.

2004-07-19 [Pnelma Tirian]: anyone who worships satan is a christian? well, hell, if you think that, then Christianity is doomed.

2004-07-19 [Astaroth]: It's true, if you worship Satan, you are a Christian. Satan exists only in Christian idealisms, just think about it.

2004-07-19 [Avoral]: Yeah, that's one of the most hilarious contradictions to point out. I recall a couple conversations I had at age 14 to the effect of "God's gonna strike that bastard down." "THERE IS NO GOD, THERE IS ONLY SATAN!" "If you believe in Satan, you're accepting the presence of God. Ignorant devil-worshipping fuck." "FUCK U TOO!!!" "Sure, whatever."

2004-07-19 [Pnelma Tirian]: in my eye, anyone who worships satan is a satanist. you can acknowledge that God exists and still not be a Christian; hell, satan knows that fact all too well. But just because it's in the same theology doesn't mean it's the same thing. By worshiping satan, you accept that the Christian world does indeed exist, but you're not on the same team as Christians are on at all. (just my eye....and my little rant...lol...)

2004-07-19 [Pnelma Tirian]: there is a large difference.

2004-07-19 [Avoral]: Nah, it didn't offend me. *Points at offended* Personally, I don't care enough to be offended. But I do tend to just kinda shake my head in distaste when someone jumps onto a wiki and lets the first words be a bit of a slam on Christianity. It's about the same as coming on and saying, "Insert overplayed Goth opening here."

2004-07-19 [Avoral]: And to get technical, it's not just Christianity. He exists in all the big three monotheistic religions (Judaism, Islam, and Christianity), but so does God. Just nitpicking... Hehe... I know you knew that already. ^_^

2004-07-19 [Avoral]: Though yeah, Pnelma, I'm going to agree with you there. But Astaroth was just kinda showing you a little twist of logic, making a relation where the relation was due. He knew what he was talking about, just kinda said it broadly.

2004-07-19 [Pnelma Tirian]: have you noticed that you can make as many jokes offending Christianity and things like that, but a single crack about Buddhism or something, and man, you're racist and prejudice. <-(I wasn't aware that was an adjective....o.O)

2004-07-19 [Astaroth]: Yeah, the stupid "evil" wannabes are so hilarious. I love pointing that little fact out in front of teh whole class when they try to look "cool" by saying that they worship Satan. Embrarass them in front of the whole class, now that's just my general idea of "fun". XD

2004-07-19 [Avoral]: Yeah, I know. It's the same with white people in the USA. Everyone can make fun of whites, but the second someone slams a minority... It's just over.

2004-07-19 [Pnelma Tirian]: whatever you wish. but as a Christian, that statement worries me.

2004-07-19 [Avoral]: *LOL* Damn straight, Astaroth.

2004-07-19 [Astaroth]: Well that would depend on your idea of what a "Christian" is. Most "satanists" say that they don't believe in God, and only Satan from what I've seen. However, those that BELIEVE in both God AND Satan, yet choose Satan's path instead of God's path are just stupid. They KNOW that they would be going to hell if so, is taht not just stupid? Satanism is stupid from both perspectives in my opinion.

2004-07-19 [Pnelma Tirian]: unlike you, friends, I have the curses of a strong concience and extremist empathy. So fighting, making blatant fun of people, and flicking people off are things I don't enjoy.

2004-07-19 [Pnelma Tirian]: What was that quote from spawn again...?

2004-07-19 [Pnelma Tirian]: something about how satan gets all the idiots...

2004-07-19 [Astaroth]: Yes, that's true, ESPECIALLY about how everyone can offend whites, even on National television and on the radio. Why aren't they "racists"? I guess that it's perfectly okay to be a racist in this country AS LONG as you aren't white, huh?

2004-07-19 [Pnelma Tirian]: "What kind of country is it where the only people I can hate are white?"(King of the Hill)

2004-07-19 [Astaroth]: Well it's fine with me if you don't enjoy making fun of people and such, that just leaves more fresh meat for us to feast upon. XD

2004-07-19 [Avoral]: Well, I'd imagine it's a bit of a "you're in it too deep for redemption" kind of deal, or perhaps being tempted by mortal trappings more than one should be. Later in life, I'm sure materialism gets really hard to avoid. Hell, I've even got the tendency to swing toward buying flashy things, even if it's just because they amuse me or make good "conversation pieces." *Shrugs*

2004-07-19 [Astaroth]: I personally think that it is relevant to the fact that blacks are generally using every excuse they can come up with to get away with things. When they are condemned for crime or something, they say that it's the government being "racist". I've heard crap about (c)Rappers saying that "Da government tryin' to take da black man down" even. XD

2004-07-19 [Pnelma Tirian]: by running I mean away from my religion. I mean, hell, not a month ago I tried tarot. I just wrote things on blank cards, so I erased them and am now going to have a card deck, but they've still been used for that purpose.

2004-07-19 [Avoral]: Wow. *Moment of introspection; I've been having a lot of them since my recent accident* Now that you mention it, Pnelma... I can agree with you on the empathy deal, but I'll admit, eerily enough, that I almost entirely lack the conscience you're speaking of... Almost like I don't even register my actions or the consequences around them. (Maybe I'm TOO calm sometimes...?) Oh well. *End introspection moment*

2004-07-19 [Avoral]: Pnelma, it's natural to experiment. You're young... You don't know the half of how the world works. What's to say you couldn't be wrong from the start? You only know when you take a look around with your own two eyes.

2004-07-19 [Avoral]: Not only that, but the NAACP is totally freaking annoying. Yeah... Sadly, it's media-driven pop culture (once more) that seems to set the standard for the black community, saying, "This is what is cool, and what you have to try to amount to" and all that... Thus, we have less black business leaders and politicians, and more wannabe "thugs."

2004-07-19 [Astaroth]: As far as "empathy" and such, I try hard to be a nice person to people that are nice to me and that I consider friends. However, I just like to take advantage of the fact that most of the people I make fun of merely set THEMSELVES up to be criticized. I'm only doing to them what they are asking society to do to them, aren't I?

2004-07-19 [Astaroth]: Regardless of how old any of us are, I think that we all can be wrong or right, depending on the situation and how much experience an in dividual may have with that particular matter. It's more of experience in a certain area than just relying on mere age to uncover all the secrets for you.

2004-07-19 [Astaroth]: I do think taht the media has something to do with that. Ever since (c)Rap music has gotten popular, haven't you noticed an increase in crime rate? Not to mention that it is the base of "black culture" as well. I've heard that they've always generally caused crime and such though, far before the (c)Rap music came out and influenced them.

2004-07-19 [Avoral]: Ah, yes. Just fulfilling their subconscious wishes and expectations, playing the role that SOMEONE needs to play. But still, regardless of age, it tends to be that the young are less experienced than the old. Exceptions exist, but as a general rule... I'd say where I'm coming from is valid.

2004-07-19 [Astaroth]: Yeah, generally speaking, that is very true. The morons that I see every day in the mall indeed give light to that, among many other things. XD

2004-07-19 [Pnelma Tirian]: My empathy is like, I watch a movie and a cop gets killed and I think, "That cop probably had a family...maybe a wife and kids...probably some close friends...what'll happen to them now?" note that this cop was a character with no lines.

2004-07-19 [Pnelma Tirian]: hey, I gotta go. mom's sending me to bed in a towtruck. ;)

2004-07-19 [Avoral]: Well, yeah, it's typical for a minority to gain its political foothold through less-political means. Gravitate to the place where the monopoly isn't. And for a while, blacks WERE pretty oppressed. Oppression breeds unrest, and unrest breeds increased crime. These days, however, blacks don't know the MEANING of oppression. And that's where I think it's ridiculous to have the government pay for injustice done to someone's ancestors... It's total crap. You're paying spoiled voluntarily-ignorant people to bitch out office workers. Total suckiness, don't you think?

2004-07-19 [Avoral]: Oh, I know EXACTLY what you mean on that note, Pnelma... Hehe... Sadly enough, I feel you. Night, though!

2004-07-19 [Astaroth]: Well the cop is also protecting people who need it. He doesn't deserve that. But if the cop chose suicide as his death, then he will get as he wishes, no? The kids being made fun of DO deserve these things, as they ask to be criticized. Just as if the cop were to commit suicide or not, he sets himself up for the chance of death by being a cop. When these kids set themselves up to be criticized by society, they should be like the cop, and accept the fact that both a positive and/or a negative outcome could occur by their actions.

2004-07-19 [Avoral]: Yeah... Instead, they just think the world's going to warp its ways to serve them. And when it doesn't, they just whine and act like some grand injustice has just occurred.

2004-07-19 [Astaroth]: Yes, the blacks were "oppressed" for a while. However, we've ALL been opprssed through the course of history. The English and the Irish for example, war/slavery... it was rampant between the 2 peoples, no? Or my people, the Persians were defeated by Alexander the great and enslaved/killed. The Egyptians enslaving the Hebrews for 2000 years, forcing them to work until death, without the slightest trace of "humane" treatment. Slavery and oppression is just what happens alot, you know? Why don't the Irish whine to the English government? Or the Jews whine to the German government? The blacks are the only ones doing this sort of thing as far as I know.

2004-07-19 [Avoral]: Others have jumped on the bandwagon. But I agree, this recompense BS is stupid. I'm glad SOMEONE out there agrees with me... Heh...

2004-07-19 [Astaroth]: And about "oppression"... I am slandered constantly because I'm Persian and from Iran, and with all the stuff happenning in the Middle-east right now, combined with the fact that the people here are generally stupid rednecks, you can guess what happens from there... I can gaurantee that Middle-easterns are being discriminated against MUCH more than blacks are these days, even the country going as far as to make a LAW that Middle-easterns can't leave the country because of "terror" threats.... but you don't see us whining about it, do you?

2004-07-19 [Avoral]: Seriously. Heh... I do see the whole Japanese "Internment Camp" deal resurfacing in time. The difference, however, is public hype. Oh well... Nothing I can do but vote.

2004-07-19 [Astaroth]: So if they can make a law as dumb as Middle-easterns not being able to leave the country because of "terror" threats, why can't they make a law that blacks can't own a gun or any weapons to prevent "crime"?

2004-07-19 [Astaroth]: Well anyways, I've gotta go, nice chatting with you Avoral, we should do it again soon, goodnight.

2004-07-19 [Avoral]: Anytime. Take care, Astaroth.

2004-07-19 [Delladreing]: they made me take down my Conformity inc badge!!! said it was copyrighted work!

2004-07-19 [levhole]: just say you are a member of the wiki

2004-07-19 [HiddenFire]: that badge up there? it doesn't count as copyrighted work because it is parody. parody is specifically protected under copyright laws.

2004-07-19 [Delladreing]: i did but they said that no pics of celebrities even warped images are permited and they dont care its part of the wiki

2004-07-19 [HiddenFire]: how strange! but i think it might then only be because ET has specific rules against celebrity photos. *shrugs* legally you have no problem but ET might just be a little more strict than is legally needed.

2004-07-19 [Delladreing]: blah they took away a lot of wiki pics.... -_- least they never took any of my wiki pics again. id cry if they dismantled my wiki again

2004-07-19 [Whim]: Which celebrity do you think they care about? The good charlotte douch or hello kitty?

2004-07-19 [HiddenFire]: must be hello kitty... who cares about good charlotte?

2004-07-19 [Whim]: but I drew hello kitty myself...in my mind...

2004-07-19 [Whim]: perhaps I need to make a new Conformity, Inc. badge. One without stuff that people find...um...celebritized.

2004-07-19 [HiddenFire]: just use a drawing of a random stereotypical goth! You might have to get an artist to contribute it... *thinks* I have two images in my gallery that might suit your purposes but they are not hard core goth stuff.

2004-07-19 [HiddenFire]: but one is acutally a picture of me and the other of my ex. not sure what i think about using either image really...

2004-07-19 [Whim]: we could just politely ask ET goths if we can use their pictures.

2004-07-19 [HiddenFire]: someone at goth girls of elftown might agree. *hopes he got the name right*

2004-07-19 [Whim]: I'll make Avoral do the dirty work...hehe. I'm just the designer.

2004-07-19 [HiddenFire]: myself and Avoral have a some imfulence over [ElizabethBathory] but i dont know if we could get her to agree to it. *shrugs* it's worth a try though.

2004-07-19 [HiddenFire]: I wonder... if you applied a liberal enough filter to the images of the celebrities could you make it appear as if they where never photos but rather acutall drawings?

2004-07-19 [HiddenFire]: I could... redraw that banner really quickly... bang up something that could be used.

2004-07-19 [Whim]: eh...they haven't hit the source (this wiki) yet and the guards have been here countless times...hehe. So I wouldn't worry just yet.

2004-07-19 [Pnelma Tirian]: wouldn't it be great if we had a guard?

2004-07-19 [Whim]: hehehe...I like your style...

2004-07-19 [Lost in Illusions]: decapitate Hello Kitty! ^^ Make her bloody head spell out "conformity, Inc." muhahahahahahahaha!! XD Okay... Im back from that evil place... o.O

2004-07-19 [Whim]: that's too much. It needs to keep a professional feel to it because of the name "Conformity, Inc." The Inc. makes it sound business like so the appearance needs to remain strictly business.

2004-07-19 [Lost in Illusions]: oh... ~pout~ How about an assassination of the conformed figures?

2004-07-19 [Avoral]: Well, I think we could go with the original idea I had before I looked for Good Charlotte figures... Just find three or so Goth pictures and do something bad to them. Nothing over the top, like Chris was getting at, but rather more professionally-done, like the crosshairs. However... We can't recycle the crosshair idea. If it's a new badge, we can't just rip off the old one.

2004-07-19 [Whim]: I can rip off anyone one I want.

2004-07-19 [Avoral]: Ooh... Maybe "preps" and "jocks" at a board meeting with business attire, weapons, and a big zealous cross in the background. Crucifix, no less... Make it look Catholic.

2004-07-19 [Avoral]: You CAN, Whim, but I'm just saying if we rip off this one it's just be like... Bleh. Like casting a new actor for a character in a sequel.

2004-07-19 [Whim]: Catholics are sexy when they're evil.

2004-07-19 [Whim]: Yeah, I know. I had no intention of recycling the old one.

2004-07-19 [Avoral]: Oh yeah. Catholic schoolgirls, no less.

2004-07-19 [cuntstitches]: Why don't you have a crucified jesus on your cross while you're at it?

2004-07-20 [Lost in Illusions]: hmmmmmmmmmmmm, that could work...

2004-07-20 [HiddenFire]: or a crucified goth! but that might be suggesting we worship them... we can't have that.

2004-07-20 [Avoral]: Yeah, that's what I was talking about, the crucifix.

2004-07-20 [Avoral]: Yeah, no worshipping Goths.

2004-07-20 [Whim]: Dress Jesus like a goth on the cross.

2004-07-20 [cuntstitches]: A pointer and a projected 'graph' of a goth.

2004-07-20 [Whim]: As funny as the board room idea is, I think it's better suited for some sort of comic strip or something. It would just look cheesy on a badge.

2004-07-20 [cuntstitches]: Probably, unless you used real people for all of it.

2004-07-20 [Astaroth]: If you need a new badge, and can't use celeberity pictures, then the annswer is simple: Take a camera to the mall, get a few shots of some of the "goths" in there, then use photoshop and make something hilarious, there you go.

2004-07-20 [Whim]: yeah, getting goths is no problem, Ast. We're just brainstorming new ideas.

2004-07-20 [HiddenFire]: ah, but Astaroth, that is actually illegal. I think it violates their right to privacy. in order to use sombodies, ANYBODIES, photo you usually have to get signed written permisison. so... even that might be contested. I like the line graph idea and the boardroom idea. How about something burning? Like the KKK has the burning cross. Something about spreading the light. What could be burn that would be an equivalent to the anti-goth?

2004-07-20 [cuntstitches]: A pile of items like collars and boots and ankhs would be fitting.

2004-07-20 [HiddenFire]: well see it would be "a light unto the goths" the burning cross is not meant to piss off christians. You should have a symbol of what it is to be anti-goth. then we can spread the light of this "burning anti-goth" into all the dark corners of ET. ^_^

2004-07-20 [Astaroth]: Before you go and condemn Goths, are you sure that you are even against Goths in the first place? I'm still confused on the matter of this wiki being against those annoying, whiny mall "goths"... or if it's actually being against Goths, and if so, I can't imagine why that would be justifiable. Did you ever think that you could be ignorant on the matter, going by the misconceptions and stereotypes that "goths" are generally today? Perhaps you could have hated something completely differrent all this time and those people have just been falsely thrown in that category?

2004-07-20 [Whim]: I'm against cliches. Goths generally follow that. I'm also against people belonging to sub-genres, flocking to one like sheep. What's worse is most say they are unique when in reality they try so hard to be exactly the same as those they feel will accept them even though they say they don't need acceptance.

2004-07-20 [HiddenFire]: the workings of the human mind are often quite paradoxical... but that is no exucse to be a whiney goth, confoming to non-conformity. I am at least one of this wiki's token goths... I know how it works.

2004-07-20 [Pnelma Tirian]: I wish I wasn't so.....human.

2004-07-20 [HiddenFire]: humans suck. i say we kill all humans. *is inhuman*

2004-07-20 [Pnelma Tirian]: I mean, I love being human, because it's a fantastic excuse to cover up imperfection, but I wish I wasn't so incredibly paradoxical.

2004-07-20 [Avoral]: *Is human* I say we kill all robots.

2004-07-20 [Avoral]: Astaroth, I know perfectly well what I'm doing, thank you. To "throw the baby out with the bathwater," as some age-old saying goes, is EXACTLY what I'm trying to do. ^_^ I'm a baby-killer, Astaroth. I slaughter, devour, and incinerate infants. All I have to say at the moment, given that I'm tired, cranky, and out of it, is this: Don't be so naive.

2004-07-20 [levhole]: hey avoral, whats worse than 16 dead babies in 1 trash can?

2004-07-20 [Lost in Illusions]: what's worse than 16 babies in one trash can?

2004-07-20 [Malkavian]: 16 living bunnies in a trashcan

2004-07-20 [Lost in Illusions]: um.... haha?

2004-07-20 [Sven Welkenson]: One dead babie in 16 trash cans.

2004-07-20 [levhole]: good job... *gives sven a cookie* to bad you've heard that one 5 times to many

2004-07-20 [Sven Welkenson]: I think I told it to you?

2004-07-20 [levhole]: either that or the other way 'round

2004-07-20 [Sven Welkenson]: yeah, *shrugs* ah well.

2004-07-20 [levhole]: here's another good baby kill'n joke (sven keep quite).... What's the difference between a trash bag full of dead babies and a new Cadillac?

2004-07-20 [Sven Welkenson]: *Sven raises his hand and jumps in his chair*

2004-07-20 [levhole]: *lev ignores sven*

2004-07-20 [Astaroth]: Well I am also against Cliches and all that stuff. Same with the sub-genres, because yes, it's true that most of them will mold their personalites just to "fit in" with the rest, so I can understand what you mean. As I've stated before, I don't label myself as a "Goth", regardless of how some parts of me naturally fit in that group, and I don't care if anyone accepts me or not, you know? I just do/wear/think/act how I like. I've also said that I don't like people who TRY not to "conform" as well, they're just as bad as people who try to "fit in" with a group. I guess for me, I'm not trying to "fit in" with anyone, and I'm not trying to NOT "conform" either... I can't really explain it.

2004-07-20 [Astaroth]: Basically, what I am saying, is that I don't want you people assuming that I'm trying to "rebel" and such just because I choose to wear black clothing, boots, makeup, and because I listen to Metal and such.

2004-07-20 [Sven Welkenson]: Ok, most of the people on here wear black and listen to metal. Myself included. I love my metal. Just because of this we are not goth....we are against those who call themselves goth just because of these things.

2004-07-20 [cuntstitches]: Mm. I could go with some nice goth music right now.

2004-07-20 [levhole]: *shivers, forcing back the vomit from his throat*

2004-07-20 [Lost in Illusions]: I like Manson, but Im hardly goth, nor do I conform with the beliefs of those that glamourize it according to mass media.

2004-07-20 [levhole]: i can't say i enjoy most "goth" music (fucking return key!)

2004-07-20 [cuntstitches]: I stick mainly with the 80's goth. Cure, New Order, Joy Divison, etc.

2004-07-20 [Astaroth]: Good, I'm glad we could have an understanding there. It's annoying for me to go outside, and when people see me they assume that I'm a "goth" and all... I don't want people thinking that I'm one of those mall-grommets, you know? Couldn't live without Metal, what types of Metal do you listen to?

2004-07-20 [Astaroth]: I don't personally like most Goth music, I like Jack off Jill alot, but that's about it.

2004-07-20 [cuntstitches]: Jack Off Jill isn't goth music.

2004-07-20 [Sven Welkenson]: I like 80s metal and alot of death metal. Metallica, Korn, Dimmu Borgir, Slipknot, Killswitch Engage, and other stuff I can't remember.

2004-07-20 [Lost in Illusions]: Ive recently grown to like KoRn and Slipknot. They have a nice quality. ^^

2004-07-20 [Astaroth]: Jack off Jill isn't Goth music, then what are they? o_0

2004-07-20 [Astaroth]: Korn and Slipknot isn't Metal. Damn, we all seem to have misconceptions of music genres here. XD

2004-07-20 [Sven Welkenson]: We recently had satelite Tv installed. They have those CD channels where they just play music (no videos or commercials) I found the Heavy metal channel and have to come like some bands I've never heard of before then.

2004-07-20 [levhole]: shit?

2004-07-20 [Sven Welkenson]: Korn and Slipknot

2004-07-20 [Sven Welkenson]: Korn and Slipknot? Not metal?

2004-07-20 [levhole]: not metal... shit

2004-07-20 [Lost in Illusions]: I dun care, I just know I like them. I dont generalize any music as a genre. Except pop. I cant stand pop. bubbly, bofriend-obssessed, make me puke pop.

2004-07-20 [Sven Welkenson]: Well as with the seperation of music into genres, the genres are seperated into sub-genres...metal being a good example. There are several different types of metal: heavy metal, death metal, black metal, numetal etc. The bands I have listed in the previous post fit into one of these sub-genres of metal.

2004-07-20 [Lost in Illusions]: I really wouldnt know. I just know who I like. Hell, who am I kidding, I actually enjoy a few pop singers. Though, I cant stand singers like Britney and Jessica Simpson who just sing about love and all that lovey shit. I have every genre, except for rap (which I cant stand at all).

2004-07-20 [cuntstitches]: Jack Off Jill is just rock. They're a less extreme level of shock rock like Manson.

2004-07-20 [Sven Welkenson]: Well the major problem with those genres is the lyrics. If they kept the words out and just made instrumentals, some of there songs could be tolerable. I emfasize COULD and TOLERABLE....

2004-07-20 [Lost in Illusions]: hehe, I agree. Some of the words are a bit extreme. Then, some bands, like Cradle of Filth, are hardly distinguishible. I like one song Ive heard by them, but the others, Im not too fond of.

2004-07-20 [Astaroth]: I mostly love Black and Power Metal, Iron Maiden, Helloween, Rhaphsody, Borknagar, Emperor, Burzum, Judas Priest, Nokturnal Mortum, those are some. Slipknot and Korn are what I'd call "Nu-Metal"... which I'm not particularly fond of.

2004-07-20 [Lost in Illusions]: I am beginning to love KoRn, though the only CD I own by them is Issues. I want to buy their other's but Im slow at buying them.

2004-07-20 [Sven Welkenson]: I wouldn't put them in Nu-metal.....That's more what Linkin Park is considered.

2004-07-20 [cuntstitches]: Korn began nu-metal.

2004-07-20 [Sven Welkenson]: Ok true....I take back my last statement...*feels stupid for being lazy*

2004-07-20 [Lost in Illusions]: hmmmm I think KoRn and LP have a similar sound, myself. But maybe it's just me.

2004-07-20 [Avoral]: Who started this conversation? *12-gauge ready* Fess up, someone.

2004-07-20 [Avoral]: (Hehe... I guessed the answer to that 1 baby/16 trash cans joke on my own. Go me.)

2004-07-20 [Lost in Illusions]: not me. ~hides from the loaded gun~ DONT SHOOT! >.<

2004-07-20 [cuntstitches]: If no one confesses there will just be a big bloody mess. C'mon, don't ruin the fun for everyone.

2004-07-20 [Lost in Illusions]: ~hides behind [cuntstitches]~ I joined in! I didnt start it! >.<

2004-07-20 [Whim]: *shoots all sub-genres in the face four times* Why can't it all just be fucking metal? Why do people have to bastardize stuff by trying to label it just because it doesn't sound like Metallica?!

2004-07-20 [Neimo]: *likes Metallica* *likes all sorts of music...from Metallica...to Matchbox 20...to Yanni* *is interested in almost all genres*